CONVERSATION WITH A FRIEND

Stefano Pilati models Kim Jones’s latest Dior collection, as the pair exchange thoughts on their lives in fashion

“When we look at coats, I always think of what they’ll look like on Stefano,” says Kim Jones, Dior men’s artistic director. In the portraits accompanying these words, you’ll see how Stefano Pilati looks in the rest too.

Style personified, Pilati has sophistication that transcends the ages, a kind of seductive glamour that should make you pine for a world that once was – except for the fact he is, in the here and now right in front of us, sitting in a chair, smoking, and gesturing with his hands. Laughing. Recollecting. Reflecting.

Born in Milan and based in Berlin, Pilati began his fashion journey working in fabrics in the 80s. His resume includes Cerruti, Armani, Prada, and Miu Miu where he worked on ready-to-wear and reported directly to Miuccia Prada. An eight year stint as artistic director of Yves Saint Laurent in Paris bridged the 2000s to the early 2010s. Wherever Pilati travels, the immaculate prevails, countered by a refined subversion, distinct in that it feels cognitive, of experience rather than any easy cliché. In recent years, he might’ve been wearing tailored charcoal trousers with high-heeled Margiela Tabi boots and a heavy, silver neckchain that either looks like it should be securing a bike or could’ve fallen out of a sex club. He could be in a lapel-less, pocket-less sports jacket in a country wool, with a small black drawstring bag hanging off his wrist. Each of his ingenious styling gestures makes you think ‘what a mind!’. I’ve never seen an occasion where he doesn’t look fantastic: I’ll put it that you haven’t either. At Pharrell’s personal request Pilati was cast in the creative’s first Louis Vuitton show last year (Spring/Summer 2024), walking in Damier pearls over the 16th century Pont Neuf to the sounds of the rousing (Clipse) and the joyous (gospel choir Voices of Fire).

At YSL, Pilati’s woman was La Parisienne in all her sophistication and complexity. His man? Himself. Something that Jones agrees with, proffering that the person that looks best in Pilati’s designs is Stefano. Impeccable tailoring. Foulards. Lovely shirts and knitwear. A gamut of elegant menswear seen through his lens, with surprises. One of Pilati’s designs I’ve personally enjoyed, and have never been complimented so much on, is a Proustian jacket in houndstooth, with a high shawl collar in black velvet and Teddy Boy pockets. The velvet continued inside, and underneath an embroidered Cassandre monogram was a pocket just the right size for a packet of cigarettes – that, when you placed 20 Marlboro in there, somehow disappeared into thin air. I thought about how the chain in the hem of a Chanel haute couture jacket makes it hang perfectly. And how, conceptually, for a house whose founder was said to smoke 150 cigarettes a day, this was not only very thoughtful but just as perfect. Alas, while I was away for some months a few years ago, my beloved jacket succumbed to an eager moth via an ajar window. I hate that they have good taste! Whenever I see an image of Fall/Winter 2011, it’s my own madeleine. Pilati says I should still wear it with its holes in the back.

The Dior collection seen here, Summer 2025, created by Kim Jones is to its designer as meaningful, having spent a childhood across Africa and collected hundreds of pieces of Hylton Nel ceramics. Jones, an ardent traveller, made a six-hour car journey from Cape Town to meet the 83 year-old artist-potter, and has realised a collection of Parisian couture savoir-faire that pays tribute to craft and applied arts, a unity that is wide-reaching through pride in work and artisan skills. Its sculptural volumes meanwhile borrow from the language of ceramics. Hats by longtime milliner, Stephen Jones, were made in collaboration with South African company Earth Age, who hand crocheted each cloche, while beads created by Yann Petillault were hand-applied back in Paris. Men’s workwear, utility and sportswear, a vocabulary in Jones’s designs traceable to his early London days, is as present as women’s haute couture: a coat is interpreted from an unrealised Fall/Winter 1958 Saint Laurent design, when the young talent was leading the house of Dior from Avenue Montaigne following Christian Dior’s premature death.

Jones, who is also artistic director of Fendi womenswear and couture, has a friendship with Pilati, who now spearheads his own label Random Identities, nearing 10 years. They even spent time together last Christmas. When they speak, the candid and casual unfurls. Real talk from two of the brightest – and realest – in fashion. 

Dean Mayo Davies: You’re both incredibly personal designers. Stefano, you've talked of never designing anything that you wouldn't wear. Did you get a familiar feeling of Kim through this Dior collection that you modelled? His early years throughout Africa and the Hylton Nel pottery he has a vast collection of at his country house.

Stefano Pilati: Well, you know, what I love about Kim is that you always have an unexpected narrative and everything is very personal. The colours were beautiful. I stole a pair of boots. [Laughs].

DMD: Which is always a good sign. [Laughs].

SP: I made everybody seriously jealous because I walked off the shoot in the boots. They were like, “I can't with you.” But it was my big sign of appreciation.

Kim Jones: I remember when I was younger looking at Stefano's work and being absolutely obsessed by it. And actually the person that looked the best in his work was him. I don't design for myself, I always think of other people. When we look at coats, I always think of what they’ll look like on Stefano, because he would know how to rock one really well. Whereas I wear more of a uniform, I don't really think about myself wearing stuff. I'm always the last thing. 

DMD: You’ve enjoyed a long friendship. When did you first meet and what were your first impressions of each other?

SP: It was at Kate’s [Kate Moss] 40th birthday in the country and you came with Alister [Mackie]. I came to say hello, and then we sat and chatted for an hour and a half. Obviously the first impression was really good. 

KJ: I was always a big fan of Stefano, and I'm quite shy of people that I look up to. That night I ended up sitting next to you and talking for an hour and a half, then I sat next to Vivienne Westwood afterwards and I was like, “Oh my God, it's too much.” She was really sweet. You know, that's the wonderful thing about Kate, she brings all these different people together. I think as a friendship group we're all very loyal to each other. People think fashion is full of people that hate each other, well, a lot of people love each other as well. You champion your heroes and you look after your friends.

SP: For me it was also quite touching because, believe it or not, my life at Saint Laurent was quite secluded in a way, and the only designer that I knew was Marc Jacobs, really. Phoebe [Philo], you know, we ran into each other a couple of times. Kim represents the generation after me, and so the fact that he admires my work… I always feel surprised.

KJ: One thing I'd do on a Saturday in Paris is go to the Saint Laurent store to buy new clothes. Every week. I've still got them all in a wardrobe, and I can still wear them.

DMD: What do you admire about each other now? Are things any different?

KJ: I admire Stefano's vision and when he presented what he was doing for our Fendi capsule [Resort 2024], it was one of the most exciting things I'd seen because he was really firing on all cylinders, both in terms of the presentation and the thought process. What's interesting when you work with another designer is how they think – you see it. It’s something you can only experience when you're in the studio. Everyone thinks in a different way, so you learn a lot. Stefano sticks to his guns and he's got a really clear vision of what he wants to do.

SP: I mean in the past we were just creative, somehow doing fashion, you know? At least that’s the way I grew up. I'm full of admiration for Kim because he's a master of taking care of all the aspects [of being an artistic director] in a genius way. Whereas I'm way more romantic in the sense that it's all about guts and vision – I lock myself in my creativity and I don't want to hear anything anymore, I just go with the gut. If something goes wrong or whatever, it affects the whole me.

KJ: A problem now in the fashion world is that everyone is busy looking at their phones – they’re not really learning as much as you think they would. We used to stare and observe and take note of everything. And that's one bit of advice to give a young designer in a room with very experienced designers: just put your phone away and listen to these people while they're talking. Because you'll learn a lot from them in an hour.

SP: Let's say that one of the conversations I love the most is fashion; I'm obsessed with fashion, so you will always find me up for it. However, in the last 15 years I try to make my friends see me too, and not [be] identified from what I do. I love to discover different aspects of people, that is friendship. When I read anything about Kim, I’ll think ‘I know more than that,’ and I like it.

It was already a huge achievement for me to be a fashion designer at a fashion house. In the 80s, when we were doing collections, my job was to be innovative with fabrics, and in turn educate consumers with these fabric innovations. It’s rare that you’ll find someone [today] who sees the clothes the way that I see them. That understands every single stitch that goes into the making. People just grab something that is very Instagram-able and I don't know, I find it very disrespectful, you know? They create their own story around it. It's very ignorant. But we're still here. [Laughs]. 

KJ: When someone's critiquing work, it's nice to know they have knowledge of fashion history, and they have an understanding of what the time is. Talking to Tim [Blanks] or Cathy [Horyn] or people like that, they know everything about everything and I love that. If Cathy gives me a bad review, she'll call me and then we'll talk about it, which I appreciate. It’s like Louise Wilson talking to me at college. I still love her and I appreciate that coming from her. But when a faceless person [online] is just being a bit of a bitch, it doesn't mean anything and they should know it doesn't mean anything. You need to have experience to be able to comment properly.

SP: One of the first things I’d say about myself is that I’m a creative person, and being creative is very beautiful. Your sense of imagination can help you in many, many ways but it also comes with the price of being vulnerable. Some people not only don't respect your work, they don't even respect your creativity, your vulnerability. They don't see the evolution a creative has, which is a beautiful thing and something I recognised since I was a kid. If your mind is creative you need to express it. I’m damned if I don't create.

DMD: Stefano, what led to establishing Random Identities in 2017? Did it come from a revolution in you or in how you saw those around you? What about the name – why not under your own name?

SP: I thought not under my own name because I never wanted to celebrate myself. Really, I could not imagine having a T-shirt or something with my name on it, I thought it was cheesy to tell you the truth. Everything started as a trial after I quit working for Saint Laurent. People constantly – almost absurdly – asked me why I didn't come back, why I didn't do my own line, to the point that I was like, “Okay, let me try.” So I did it and I was alone in Berlin, with a very, very small team. It was fun. It took me a year, basically, to put things together.

My experience taught me not only to have a vision about my brand, but to also ask what a brand should be, what business model I should have, what kind of communication I should use. I liked the name “Random” since everything was so categorised in my method of work – I could jump from a shoe to knitwear to sunglasses, a coat, whatever, during the day, five, six times. So I was like, “Oh my God, you know, my method is really random, maybe my brand should be called Random.” But it wasn't enough. And knowing, getting in contact with youths, was something unprecedented for me, because I've always been the young one that was working with adults from the age of 16, 17. I saw how important it was for them to express themselves through the clothes and I 100% give value to that. Random Identities is how we define ourselves in our own identity and how clothes can serve you instead of the other way around. So that's the reason why I called it that.

DMD: In this Dior collection there's a blue and white jacket with floral embroidery that replicates earthenware, and it took almost 2,000 hours of work. Today you're a couturier, Kim, which you combine with the language of sport and utility that you've had since your early London days. Did you ever dream you'd be able to create a legacy in this realm? 

KJ: I never plan on anything, I’ve just always gone with the flow. I'm very lucky these things happen, going from Vuitton to Dior and then Fendi, because I had another job offer and I was going to go somewhere else. Well, two other places had given me job offers, which felt an amazing accomplishment. When Karl [Lagerfeld] was sick we had the conversation about who would take over from him at Fendi and they both [Karl Lagerfeld and Silvia Venturini Fendi] wanted me. So of course I had to do it. I love Silvia, she’s an amazing woman. I think there are guiding lights in your life and I’ve been lucky with those. But I’m also not afraid to just stop it completely and do something different.

I love the big projects that I'm working on, archiving things and my art collection, my book collection, my conservation projects, there's so many things I'm interested in.

I really enjoy working with an archive and I really enjoy working with an atelier. I like at Dior I can do that grand scale show. It’s great working with musicians, being able to have a conversation with Max Richter or Kate Bush. I know Stefano did that LCD Soundsystem show [Fall/Winter 2010] and those things feel really special. You're giving the audience something that they're going to come out of really uplifted and that's what fashion should do. 

Each thing sets a tone. We also develop all our fabrics, that takes a lot of time. Like Stefano, we like the best things.

STEFANO PILATI, KIM JONES
TEXT DEAN MAYO DAVIES
CREATIVE AND ART DIRECTION STEFANO PILATI
PHOTOGRAPHY JOSÉ CUEVAS
FASHION EDITOR MARQUET K. LEE
HAIR AND MAKEUP KENNY CAMPBELL USING K COLOURS
ALL CLOTHING AND ACCESSORIES DIOR MEN SUMMER 2025
AT LARGE #22, AUTUMN/WINTER 2024
COVER STORY